Turn HVAC Vendors Into Growth Partners

If your manufacturer or distributor relationship only starts when you need equipment and ends when the invoice is paid — you’re missing some real growth opportunities. The trades are being reshaped by new technology, evolving rebate and incentive programs, and the way contractors are being supported.

On this week’s episode of Cracking the Code, David Holt is joined by Drew Cameron, President of Flow Odyssey and EDS, for a no-nonsense conversation about what modern HVAC partnerships should actually look like. Understand how contractors can define expectations, ask better questions, and turn vendors into strategic partners who support technology adoption and long-term business development.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:22:21

We’ve got a craft and create this relationship. Manufacturers and distributors. They want loyalty more than anything else. As an organization, what are these manufacturers and distributors doing to assimilate the best in class, best practices from their dealer base, to bring to all of their partners who.

00:00:22:23 – 00:00:48:10

Welcome to crack the code where we make Hvac success clear, simple and stress free. I’m your host, David Holt. This episode is part of our 16 part epic 2026 speaker series, introducing you to the powerful voices shaping the future of our industry. You sure don’t want to miss next week’s episode, so subscribe and turn on your notifications right now!

00:00:48:12 – 00:01:19:13

It’s a really good best practice. In today’s episode, we’re honored to speak with PGA board member Drew Cameron. He’s president of Flow Odyssey and EDS. He’s also the moderator of one of epic 2026 Most Anticipated Panel Sessions, a panel discussion with many of the biggest manufacturers in the industry. This session takes place Friday, February 13th, 2026 at 11 a.m. live from the Bellagio in Las Vegas.

00:01:19:15 – 00:01:45:05

Drew will be leading an eye opening conversation with leadership representatives from carrier, Hisense, LG, Mitsubishi, Rheem and Trane exploring how their strategies, technologies and dealer development programs are shaping the next generation of Hvac success. So grab your notebook and let’s get cracking. Welcome to Cracking the Code. Drew, we’re happy to have you. Hey, David. Well, thank you for having me.

00:01:45:06 – 00:02:32:17

Great to be here, as always. You bet. I’m looking forward to this. So, you have the unbelievably cool opportunity to be the moderator for a panel at the upcoming epic 2026 conference in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. And that panel is going to be full of manufacturers representing their manufacturers, representing their brand, and you’re going to get a chance to ask them a series of questions about what they’re doing to elevate the success, the professionalism, the abilities of contractors that are selling their products and services.

00:02:32:17 – 00:02:51:15

So, give us a little insight into kind of what you’re thinking about as the moderator for this. Yeah. Well, thank you. And, I appreciate the opportunity to have this, panel of people, from, various manufacturers, and we’re gonna put em on the hot seat. I mean, that’s really what we’re going to do in a good way, right?

00:02:51:19 – 00:03:09:17

And we have a little bit of fun with it. And, the idea being is I think most contractors, go out and they get a manufacturer partner, distributor, partner, whatever it may be. They get a manufacturer partner and they accept what that manufacturer partner will give them. Without knowing what to ask for and what to expect.

00:03:09:17 – 00:03:30:00

And, and so I want to basically take a, I take an approach when I work with, with contractors to say, hey, listen, we’re going to we’ve got to craft and create this relationship. And so I want to take this opportunity at this event to, you know, to do that a little bit. I want to teach contractors to basically realize what they should expect from their manufacturing partner.

00:03:30:02 – 00:03:53:21

But I also want to ask these manufacturer manufacturing partners, as to what are they doing and what are they, willing to do and what and how are they looking to evolve to better support contractors going forward? Because there’s all kinds of things that change, right? The economy changes. The, you know, there’s international tariffs, there’s, tax credits going away, there’s technology changes.

00:03:54:02 – 00:04:18:08

There’s all kinds of things that are happening over on the manufacturing side, and they’re important, and we need to be aware of them as contractors. Right. But at Dia, we you know, this is educating professionals in contracting. And I want to see what is it that these manufacturing partners are willing to do. And are doing and are planning on doing as it relates to technology and training and education and being that local resource?

00:04:18:14 – 00:04:42:21

Whereas edge provides stuff somewhat remotely to some extent, for the most part. What can their local people do in conjunction with these contractors together? Right, to help skill up and level up, right? Because a lot of our members, you know, they’re not going to, you know, join other best practice groups or go to other travel, training events or send their people to training events or bring in outside trainers.

00:04:42:23 – 00:05:00:21

And so what they need is they need somebody who has the wherewithal, who is also partner with Eagle, who’s learning what we teach and understands what we teach, but also can bring, a sense of what’s happening in the trade, what’s happening in the marketplace, what’s happening with other companies in the marketplace. And let me, you know, let me know.

00:05:00:21 – 00:05:19:12

Let me let my partner know. Hey, here’s what you need to do to skill up and scale up your business in order to basically thrive in this market, in this economy, with these tools and these challenges and this technology and and what are you doing to embrace AI and how you’re improving your marketing? And, oh, we got to train your salespeople now.

00:05:19:12 – 00:05:49:06

We need to teach your technicians on how to handle, you know, the latest level of refrigerants or communicating, you know, equipment and things like that. And so it’s really about that local partnership between manufacturer and contractor. And how does that manufacturer basically supplement what our partner, our member is getting? Obviously, by being at at epic, what are they getting not only from us, but what can that local person do, that local resource do to support the contractors?

00:05:49:08 – 00:06:07:19

And skill up and skill up and skill up, if you will. You know, it’s interesting you bring that up because I’m thinking about, you know, as, as a coach and a consultant, you know, for the past, well, since 1999. So I don’t even want to do that. Math is at 26 years. Holy crap. Yeah. For both of us.

00:06:07:19 – 00:06:31:07

Yes, it’s it’s pretty crazy in it. One of the biggest questions I get, most consistent questions. I get from contractors is, Dave, if you’re back in the business today, what brand of equipment would you sell? And I always tell them, I say, you’re asking the wrong question, right? What do you mean? I said, well, realistically, the label on the cardboard box is not what the homeowner is looking for.

00:06:31:07 – 00:07:06:02

What they’re looking for is they’re looking for somebody locally that’s going to represent the label on the contractor, on the cardboard box in a way that is professional, that is consistent, that is honest, that is, you know, just high performance type of an approach. And and you don’t get there by, by accident. So you need to partner up with the local distributor that is most interested in helping you improve your skill set, improve your your ability to serve others within within our within our trade.

00:07:06:04 – 00:07:28:04

And and they look at you kind of like what I said. Oh man, think about this. You can’t give good service unless you get good service. And we know that these manufacturers, many of them that are on the panel, well, some of them are contractor direct. So we’re talking not only to the manufacturer of the equipment, we’re also talking to the distributor of the equipment.

00:07:28:06 – 00:07:45:20

Yes. But and, you know, you would hope that they would have a little more control over their, you know, their distribution channel, and that’s a good thing. And maybe they can provide a different level of support there. But a good number of the people that are on the panel are also going through, you know, third party distribution.

00:07:45:20 – 00:08:16:05

So they’re using independent wholesalers. And I think there’s, you know, potentially a greater challenge when you’re working with independents than when you’re working with, you know, your own your own distribution channel. So how how do you think how do you think the the difference between independent and and manufacturer owned distribution? I mean, have you have you experienced any differences in the way they serve, or is it is it the same situation in both?

00:08:16:06 – 00:08:48:02

No. I mean, it all depends. Yeah. I mean, it’s a great question because it all depends on the on the player, I think. And not the I don’t pick names of, manufacturers or distributors, but I’ve experienced both, and I’ve experienced where the manufacturer had a lot more, ability to impact that relationship locally. But I’ve also had it where the, you know, because of their representation and how they were set up as being the go to direct, you know, the manufacturer going to direct, they didn’t have the ability locally, in some cases.

00:08:48:07 – 00:09:09:16

And so the contractor might be better served by working with a, different manufacturer, right through a distributor who basically had the ability and had local resources and local personnel, you know, to kind of support. And so I think what has to happen and I talked about this, you know, in some of my, my trainings is that fridges you got to create a partnership proposal.

00:09:09:16 – 00:09:25:09

I think that’s really what it comes down to. Right. And I think there’s one that sits on the website, from Gary. And I’ve got one I’m happy to share with our members too. Right. But, you know, I know where I am and I know where I want to go, right? If I have vision, mission, purpose, and core values.

00:09:25:09 – 00:09:45:11

As we talk about here at IGA and I have a budget, right, financial plan compartmentalize. And I know where I am today, and I know where I’ve come from and where I want to go to. If I share that with somebody and I say, well, and here’s what I think we need to get there. Are you willing to be my partner in this?

00:09:45:13 – 00:10:05:04

Because here’s here’s what I’ve learned over time, David. And I know you know, this too, is that manufacturers and distributors, they want they want loyalty more than anything else. Right. That gives them control over their budgets and numbers as well too. Right. And they want, probably about 75% loyalty. They know you’re not going to buy everything from them and solely from them.

00:10:05:07 – 00:10:29:04

And and I’m talking about, you know, beyond equipment like parts and pieces that are different. But if you’re buying the equipment, the big boxes and as you said, those big boxes, they’re not the brand. And nor is the brand of the manufacturer. We’re the brand, the boxes are big parts, okay. And are the most expensive parts, but they’re just parts, and they’re no more important than any other part in the recipe to get the result right.

00:10:29:06 – 00:10:53:07

We’ve been convinced as contractors that that’s the case, right, that the box is more important than that. That brand on the box is more important. Now, the relationship that I have with that partner, whether it be a manufacturer or distributor and the tools and resources that they can provide to me to grow my people, my processes and support what it is that I have in my partnership proposal and plan to grow my company.

00:10:53:08 – 00:11:10:22

Right. That’s more important than the box, and it’s not a bad thing if they have a great box. Obviously with a great warranty, and then they stand behind it and they make doing business, you know, easy, right? But at the end of the day, that’s really what it comes down to, is that I think the contractor has to dictate what this relationship is.

00:11:11:00 – 00:11:26:15

And then you commit to a plan for usually I think about 2 to 3 years, right? I mean, we can we commit to this partnership and I’ll re-up it every three years, but I’ll commit to a three year plan, and I’m going to let them know what they can expect from me. But what also I expect from them.

00:11:26:17 – 00:11:44:01

And I think that’s how a partnership works. I mean, because at the end of the day, that’s really what it is. It’s a partnership. It’s not a dealership. I mean, and I think that’s a bad term over the time. Right? I think over time we’ve been we’ve been labeled as dealers, right? As contractors. Right. And, you know, dealer has another connotation and another in another way.

00:11:44:06 – 00:12:08:10

Right. But, no, we’re partners and we’re in this game together. Yes, it’s John H. Cameron and Sons or Holt Service Company, right. Back in the day. But we’re in this together, and that’s the way I look at it. And so I want to be with somebody who basically helping me be the best version of me while I help them become the best version of them through our company, in our market.

00:12:08:12 – 00:12:25:06

Absolutely. And, you know, I’m I’m 100% with you on that 100%. In fact, that would be a that’d be a great way to, kind of get the conversation going with those guys is like, you know, we really want to establish partnerships, and we really do want to provide you with the same loyalty that you’re going to provide us.

00:12:25:06 – 00:12:53:01

Right? And and we really do. We really do want to not have to shop. We really do want to have a partner that’s going to make sure that we are able to deliver the safest, healthiest, most comfortable and energy efficient Hvac system on the planet. And we also, as contractors, we need to recognize that we are actually the manufacturer for the heating and cooling system at Mr. and Mrs. Smith’s home.

00:12:53:04 – 00:13:23:22

Right. Because we’re responsible for everything from grills and registers back to and including the main big boxes, the main equipment components. But to your point, they’re just components. And if they’re not installed properly, if we don’t have a proper duct design, if we haven’t done the proper sizing of the equipment, if we haven’t done our part to manufacture this indoor comfort system for the homeowner properly, neither one or none of the partners in the channel are well-served, including, most importantly, the homeowner.

00:13:24:00 – 00:13:59:06

Right? If the homeowner is the. There’s a source of all the funds in this industry, right? It’s that retail transaction between us as contractors and the homeowner, or the small business owner or whoever we’re serving. It’s that retail transaction that funds everything that goes on in this industry. And when we get the attention and support of manufacturers of equipment and distributors of equipment as contractors, and we commit to a higher level of professionalism, of a high performance kind of an approach.

00:13:59:08 – 00:14:23:08

When we commit to that, we need that same commitment from our distributors and manufacturers because like you said, I don’t have time when I’m running my little business to be like at every conference there is, I can’t afford to be away from the shop that long because guess what I got? I got mouths to feed here, and going to conferences all the time is not going to work now.

00:14:23:08 – 00:14:45:00

They should go some of the time that that’s where you learn stuff. I know certainly when back in my day when, you know, aka I was on the national board and all that. I mean, I learned more through my mixed group and doing, you know, best practice type stuff, working with people like Steve Howard and Ron Smith and, and all these different folks that fed into me and my history of the business.

00:14:45:00 – 00:15:06:21

It’s, you know, it’s critically important. Well, none of those types of events occur without the support of manufacturing and distribution. Yeah, 100%. And and so, you know, at the end of the day, we rely on his contractors, you know, all the tools and resources that, you know, we have at our disposal. And the manufacturing distributor relationship is just one of those tools.

00:15:07:02 – 00:15:34:18

And we have to basically say what we need that to be. Right. So we’re getting, you know, let’s assume in this relationship here we get something from Gea and, and all its tools and resources and events that it has both virtually and in person, epic and downloadable tools and things like that. But what can I expect from my, you know, a local distributor and local manufacturer, representative, to not only just, you know, provide me the product, sell me the product, you know, teach me about the product.

00:15:34:18 – 00:16:01:05

Right. But, you know, bring those business skills to me, right? I mean, you guys are networked with a bunch of contractors, you know, locally. Sure. Regionally, and nationally. Right. And so as an organization, what are these manufacturers and distributors doing to, to assimilate? Okay, the best in class, best practices from their dealer base, right, their contractor base or partner base to bring to all of their partners?

00:16:01:06 – 00:16:23:19

I mean, I really think they have a fiduciary responsibility that’s incumbent upon them to, to be that that resource. And, I mean, I wrote an article on this years ago for Hardy magazine saying that that’s exactly what you should you should expect, you know, from a, manufacturing partner and manufacturers. This is exactly what I tell contractors. They should expect from you.

00:16:23:21 – 00:16:46:23

Right. And it goes beyond just a good box and pricing and the tools and resources and the educational materials and engineering materials and blah, blah, blah, and the delivery and all that kind of stuff. It’s, you know, what are you doing in a way of providing me, not just co-op funds, but marketing dollars the way I need my marketing dollars, the way you want to do a marketing co-op plan does not typically work the way I want to work.

00:16:46:23 – 00:17:03:18

Right. And so I had to basically adjust that. Right. I wanted to earn, you know, money back based on purchases or level of purchases. So if we bought higher end equipment, I wanted to get better pricing on that, or I wanted to earn volume rebates back on my high end equipment, I know I’m not going to get as much on my entry level equipment, right?

00:17:03:20 – 00:17:27:06

So forth and so on. Right. And so, you know, we basically had to create a plan around how we worked. And then we asked our manufacturing partners and distributor partners, you know, to, you know, to match us. The problem unfortunately is, is most contractors are contractors in business. They’re not business people in contracting. And what I’m going to say here is that our contractors, our members had to become business people in contracting.

00:17:27:06 – 00:17:45:22

And, and they have to go to the manufacturer and say, here’s what it is that I need, right. And here’s and give me a plan and give me a, you know, give them the structure and the plan and, and the and and the outline of what it is that you need, along with the pro forma statement saying, hey, here’s what I expect our growth to be over time, and here’s what you can expect in the number of boxes.

00:17:45:22 – 00:18:08:11

The shift in the mix of product, the ancillary product that we’re going to sell. And if you give them a plan, then more often than not they will adapt and give you something customizable to you. Here’s what happens in just just based on my observation, you probably know this too is most contract. Most manufacturers and distributors come in and basically say these are contractors in business and our business people in contracting, they’re not thinking this way.

00:18:08:15 – 00:18:26:08

So we’re going to create what we think that they want, need. And just we’re just going to give everybody the all the exact same thing. Right. And that just doesn’t work. Right? Yeah. And unfortunately, contractors don’t know that you can ask for what it is that you want, need. And you should ask for what it is that you want need.

00:18:26:08 – 00:18:51:21

And so that’s going to that’s really what I wanted to start to think about, shifting the way this relationship has existed and should exist, going forward. And I 1,000% agree with that. And in fact, you know, obviously we’ve we’ve known each other a long time and I’ve gone through the same kind of thought process. I mean, I came through business school, so I didn’t come in the typical contractor route of, you know, working as a tech or an installer or a sales guy.

00:18:51:23 – 00:19:08:07

So I came at it from a business perspective, and that’s really the way I approached my local distribution with, with. Here’s what our plan is. How can you help us, you know, what can you do to help us? And it went away from traditional, oh, you got to put our logo for our manufacturer has to be this big on a piece of paper.

00:19:08:07 – 00:19:26:05

You know, you got all that stuff from the good old days, right? And it’s like, no, no, that’s not what I’m looking for. Well, if it doesn’t comply with this, we’re not going to get, you know, the manufacturers money from a co-op standpoint. I said, I bet you could have a conversation with them. And if we sell the product, you know, I bet money that they’ll figure this out.

00:19:26:05 – 00:19:52:14

And they did imagine that. And this was in the 1990s. So it can still be done today. Interestingly, one of the things that I see and, you know, we obviously we’re going to talk about a lot of these things over the next several podcasts that we do together, in 2026 and beyond. And that is that we have very much I mean, you kind of hit on it with the cookie cutter thing that you were just talking about.

00:19:52:16 – 00:20:16:14

One of the things that absolutely drives me crazy is that one size fits all kind of mentality. Well, if I’m a $250 million business, my needs are much different than if I’m a $500,000 business. Right? And it’s not just about dollar volume. It’s about, if I’m a $500,000 guy, I may not even know how to hire somebody yet, right?

00:20:16:14 – 00:20:40:10

I might be just me and my wife answering the phone, and I might be starving to death, or I might be making good money even at 500,000. But the reality is, the stages of growth impact the the reality of what their plan should be as well. Because you’ve got I mean, realistically, if it’s me and my wife, how much leadership training do I need at that point?

00:20:40:12 – 00:21:07:20

I mean, certainly I need basic leadership training because I need to lead myself out of bed every day and and get good at, you know, doing the right things in the right sequence and all that, and learn some management principles from my own time and, and projects and so forth. But the reality is that as the business expands, as it grows, and it grows through various growth stages, the needs of, of the contractor changed pretty dramatically.

00:21:07:22 – 00:21:30:14

So having a having the manufacturer recognize that and understand that, having distribution, recognize that and understand that and adapt accordingly, I think is another piece of the puzzle that’s going to really revolutionize the way we work together as partners. Yeah, 100%. I and I think, like you said, I think when contractors are of a certain size, manufacturers know who the the premier prominent players are in the market.

00:21:30:14 – 00:21:51:00

Right? The bigger the bigger players, I guess I should say. Right. They they will almost just go ahead and, you know, fall over themselves trying to figure out, you know, what acrobats they have to do to get that player. Right. And, and they’ll go out and customize something. But for everybody else, it’s just like, now here’s just our, our standard program.

00:21:51:00 – 00:22:10:01

Right. And so we have to, you know, I think manufacturers have to basically, you know, take a look at themselves first and say, okay, hey, how do we have a plan for these various buckets? Like, and I know you’re looking at 5 or 6 different buckets of levels of contractors, if you will. And then but then also we have to teach our members, okay.

00:22:10:01 – 00:22:29:16

At Dia, here’s what you need to ask for and here’s how you can ask for it. And and here’s, you know, here’s, here’s what you might need at this level to ask for and what they’re willing to do. But if you don’t ask, you just you will get the cookie cutter thing. I mean, that’s just, you know, that’s just a way to easily ask the majority of people, right?

00:22:29:16 – 00:22:49:05

Yeah. And, it’s what it is that they do. And so I think, again, the I think this event is going to be cool because I think it’s going to be asking manufacturers to start to think differently, number one, and challenge them a little bit. But it’s also going to say to our members, hey, challenge your your manufacturing partner or your distributor or partner and ask them for certain things too.

00:22:49:05 – 00:23:08:23

So we’re going to be teaching both parties to basically, it’s time for both parties to change and change the way we, we operate. And and co-mingle, if you will. Exactly, exactly. Well, you know, we could apply the same principles that we’re going to be applying with the raising goats. You got to be a better what? First, you got to be a better thinker, right?

00:23:08:23 – 00:23:27:02

Let’s think a little differently. Next, you got to be a better implementer. You got to take a process and you got to actually implement it, which is one of our difficulties because we’re so into firefighting, we’re not into fire prevention. Well, implementation is creating a lot of fire breaks in the world. Right. So we got to be a better thinker, a better implementer.

00:23:27:02 – 00:23:46:10

Then we got to operate better. Right now that we got it implemented, we got to operate the business in a better way. And working together with distribution and manufacturing is certainly a key element of that, because I can’t give good service unless I get good service from a manufacturer or my distributor, for sure. And then finally I got to be a better leader.

00:23:46:10 – 00:24:11:11

But it takes all four of those pillars that the manufacturers, distributors and contractors need to all partner up so that we can all better serve the ultimate end user consumer of the Hvac products that we absolutely love and adore. Because, I don’t know, it’s been feeding your family for multiple generations. I got five generations right now. My family that’s been fed in this industry and we absolutely love it.

00:24:11:11 – 00:24:32:10

So I’m looking forward to this. I think you are the perfect person to host the panel, to put them on the hot seat, so to speak, and it’ll just be lukewarm. It won’t be hot, but but, you know, get them to think differently, number one. And that’s going to be great to hear their their responses to your questions on that.

00:24:32:12 – 00:25:01:11

Get them to help us implement things differently, get us to operate differently. And the operation comes in the three year plan, like you’re talking about 2 or 3 year plan out, okay, let’s operate this plan. We’ve got it implemented now. Let’s operate this plan for a period of time and make sure it’s working. Obviously, adjust as we go along when we learn new things, and then and then just do a better job all the way around of leading each other into a more successful future.

00:25:01:11 – 00:25:19:04

I think it’s going to be fun. Yeah, we’ll be fine. Yeah, I think it’s going to be, challenging for the, the manufacturers to think differently than they’ve been thinking. Right. Obviously. And I also would like to say I want our audience, the members, to say, listen, I can advocate for myself, okay? Even though I’m dealing with this major corporation, maybe.

00:25:19:04 – 00:25:41:08

Right. It’s bigger and I’m just like a smaller guy, you know, small in the marketplace or small compared to them. Right? I can advocate for myself and I can advocate for myself until I find somebody who’s willing to partner with me. I think, unfortunately, when we when we got we get into business, we partner with somebody and then we, we try and ride that for the rest of our existence.

00:25:41:10 – 00:26:00:12

And I know you changed. I’ve changed. I changed multiple times. I’ve had multiple clients change multiple times. Because if the relationship is no longer serving me and my team, allowing me to serve my customers to the best, best way, then that relationship no longer serves me. Just because it’s been in place doesn’t mean it stays in place.

00:26:00:12 – 00:26:17:14

Okay, you know, I have to earn the right to do business with the manufacturer, but the manufacturers don’t. Right to do business with me. Man, this has been great. I really, really, really appreciate it. I’m really proud of the fact that, I can call you a friend and a colleague and appreciate the leadership that you’ve provided in the industry for all these years.

00:26:17:14 – 00:26:49:02

And I really, really do think you’re the right person at the right time to be on that platform. Handling this group of manufacturers and in a, you know, proper way. So it’ll be great. It’ll be entertaining. I know, because I’ve seen you do this kind of stuff in the past. So it’ll be entertaining, it’ll be informational, and it will cause everybody in the crowd to think differently, to act differently, and hopefully to deliver a level of performance for their customers at a different level as well, a much better level in the future.

00:26:49:02 – 00:27:12:00

So thanks for your service in this way. And man, I look forward to seeing you in Las Vegas. Sounds good. Likewise. Appreciate it. David Drew, thanks so much for joining us today and giving us a sneak peek into this powerful discussion. I know that your epic 2026 breakout session will be insightful, fast paced, and full of takeaways that contractors are looking forward to hearing.

00:27:12:02 – 00:27:44:23

For more information about Drew’s panel, visit epic 2020 6.com and check out the agenda for Friday at 11 a.m.. If you haven’t already registered for the conference, make sure you do. It’s expected to sell out once again. In fact, it may already be sold out. Click Register Now at Epic 2020 6.com so you don’t miss out. And please do us a favor like and share this episode so we can help more Hvac contractors improve their businesses.

00:27:45:01 – 00:27:56:05

Thanks for watching! Cracking the code where we make Hvac success clear, simple, and stress free. I’m David Hope. Until next time, keep on cracking.